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5A Multiplier analysis..Who Knows the Facts?


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#1 spike

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:15 PM

Two years ago I posted on this site that I would take bets that this now Junior class would go undefeated through their high school career and obtain a state championship. I was shot down by several responding posters wondering how I could be so vain to predict the future. If you knew a few of these young men and their families as I do my prediction was not based on their untested atheletic abilities but by their core values, work ethic, and daily family guidance. As in all families do we have a few children and their parents who need more guidance then others? You bet. But under the continual leadership of Bobby B. and Coach Leonard this group has never lost their focus through adversity nor have they lost a Freshmen, JV or Varsity game and have now brought home to the SHG family a symbol of their accomplishments that will sit in the trophy case for years to come. The purpose of its display is not to brag of the days of old but to symbolize what can be accomplished again in the future.  

We all know through the implementation of the multiplier that JCA was moved out of the way of SHG's historical challenge to the obtain their first championship cup. We appear to have received a gift from Morris so they could have their big game with JCA once and for all. The outcome of that JCA vs. Morris single game stands now in the history books whether or not you approve of the process that put them on the field together.

My question is this: Who can provide a list of all the teams that either exited or entered the 5A class this year compared to last year? That being those teams that went up to 6A from 5A and those who came up from 4A to 5A. We know the JCA story.

Please never forget: Great organizations attract great people. There is always of room for more.

#2 03SHGgrad

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:56 PM

I cannot answer your question fully but I know that Montini was moved up from 4A.

I have one question for you.  You said the Juniors were undefeated from freshman year on.  I know Coach Leonard said that "this group of kids when 2-6 there freshman year.  I do not know if he meant the seniors or juniors but I took it as the junior class.

I'm not trying to start an argument here just wondering if my assumptions were wrong on what Coach was referring to or if your facts were wrong....

#3 footballmom

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:59 PM

I think Coach Leonard was talking about the Seniors during their Freshman or JV season.  I know the Juniors  on the team went undefeated their Freshman and JV season.

#4 HasBeen

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 02:51 PM

QUOTE (spike @ Nov 30 2005, 11:15 AM)
Two years ago I posted on this site that I would take bets that this now Junior class would go undefeated through their high school career and obtain a state championship. I was shot down by several responding posters wondering how I could be so vain to predict the future. If you knew a few of these young men and their families as I do my prediction was not based on their untested atheletic abilities but by their core values, work ethic, and daily family guidance.

So you are saying these qualities are stronger in them than those who came before them . . . wearing "the gold hats" as has been so often mentioned?

My point is this - if one wants to make predictions and then come back and claim wisdom and knowledge - great - but do it based on the things like talent and great coaching.  Don't claim this based on their core values, work ethic and daily family guidance . . . that statement, at least seems to me, to put down so many of us.

Are you saying these qualities were not present - or, at least, as strong, as with the Cyclones who came beore????

Have you ever been a CBHS/GHS/SHG football player - or anything close?

I am sure you do not speak on behalf of the Cyclones.

Edited by HasBeen, 30 November 2005 - 02:54 PM.


#5 jsb3144

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 04:03 PM

Hasbeen and spike:   I think that spike could  see that these boys already had and idea of what it takes  to get what you want on the field and in life. Work ethic,family guidance also play a big part in it. He was talking about the Jrs., not about any other class. (not to say that only the Jrs. have it) Quit reading something that's not there!

#6 03SHGgrad

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 05:16 PM

Sorry JSB... I am going to have to agree with HasBeen.  He is reading something that IS there.  If I were a former player (which I am not) I would take offense to it, such as HasBeen has (if i am right on who i think he is, he is a former player).

The statement may not have been made with malicious intent, but it looked that way to me, and apparently others.  I would put my "posting reputation" on the line and sticking my neck out by saying, there has not been one Cyclone team that had and more heart, desire, or work ethic than any other Cyclones Team of past.  

Spike said he was not bragging about his prediction.  I disagree.  What other reason was there for the way he posted it?

He could have simply said, I have known these kids for a while and I am so happy for them.  I saw this coming a while ago.  There dedication yadda yadda is outstanding and they really deserve this title!!!  The way he posted it made it look like he was taking a shot at past teams and bragging about his prediction.

That is just my opinion though I suppose...

#7 captain'00

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 05:31 PM

to that i stand and...
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#8 Teetime

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 06:13 PM

Spike wrote:

"We all know through the implementation of the multiplier that JCA was moved out of the way of SHG's historical challenge to the obtain their first championship cup. We appear to have received a gift from Morris so they could have their big game with JCA once and for all. The outcome of that JCA vs. Morris single game stands now in the history books whether or not you approve of the process that put them on the field together.

My question is this: Who can provide a list of all the teams that either exited or entered the 5A class this year compared to last year? That being those teams that went up to 6A from 5A and those who came up from 4A to 5A. We know the JCA story."

I would like to respond to that part only:

We didn't get a gift from Morris. They just went where they were told, like the rest of us. We did get a break in that they fell into 6A (they were the very smallest in 6A, so one bigger qualifier and they would have been in 5A) and I'm sure that's what you meant.

Those who came up from 4A were Bishop Mac, and Montini. Both of those moves were directly due to the multiplier.

Those who came down from 6A were Chatham-Glenwood, Lemont, and Troy Triad. Those were all very small 6A schools in 2004, are all public of course, and all may have benefited indirectly from the multiplier as it caused some "bracket creep". The 5A cut-offs in 2004 were 858 to 1265. In 2005 the cut-offs went up to 892 to 1310. That "creeping" up was at least in part due to the 1.65 multiplier applied to schools larger than 450.

One schools went down from 5A to 4A. Effingham, and that was the same reason as above for Glenwood, Lemont and Triad.

Three schools were 5A last year and went up to 6A. JCA and Arlington Heights St. Viator both got multiplied out of 5A. Morris was the third, and was a victim of there own growth (924 in 2004 vs. 1010 in 2005) and the growth of their average opponent (1607.57 in 2004 vs. 1690.71 in 2005) they play BIG schools in their conference, and that adds a lot to their "football enrollment".

I know thats a lot more than you probably wanted to know. It has become a fixation with me.

As for the rest of your post..........I think we should avoid comparing the 2005 team to any other teams or some feelings will get hurt. Just my two cents.

Edited by Teetime, 30 November 2005 - 06:18 PM.


#9 HasBeen

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 06:27 PM

Thanks 03SHGgrad and Capt . . .

Yea - sorry, but if you read between the lines - that's what you see.

This was a great team . . . they deserve everything they got!!!  I am very happy for them and proud of them.  Like I said in another post - I could die happy now - I've wanted SHG and Ken Leonard to get one for so long.  They did something none of us past players ever did - good for them.

My point is this - they did it . . . yes!!!!  They were very talented, some past CYCS have been as talented - some more, some less.  Some have had more luck in key games, some have had less luck in key games.

Coach Leonard would (if I remember correctly) success in HS football comes down to three things:

1. Talented, hard-working players.
2. Coaching
3. Sometimes - Luck

These guys had all these and sealed the deal!!!

As far as core values, family background, etc . . . I can look at the last 25 years of Cyclone players and come up with hundreds who score pretty high there . . .

Don't know I could say that contributed any more/less than it has for past teams.




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