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Profiting at the Cyclones' Expense


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#1 HasBeen

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 03:19 PM

Yesterday, at a Christmas gathering – we discussed the sale of Cyclone State Championship merchandise . . . the discussion included eight alumni comprised of (not limited to one category) four past players, three past parents, an SHG board member, and four “Building Foundation for Life” campaign donors . . .

The discussion was a bit on the disappointed side . . . when the topic came up about autographed footballs (obviously signed by this year’s team) an entity was now selling . . . and a “portion of the proceeds” were going to the school.

You know . . . if it is not the booster club, I (personal opinion) won’t buy – my $ goes to no one’s pocket but SHG.  

The little helmets (that someone is making $ on . . . but it’s OK because some of the “proceeds” will be donated to the school) were enough.  That’s just not right.  If I want a ball for my kid signed by the team – I’ll just go up to the kids and ask them to sign it.

As I understand – the balls were recently discussed on local radio . . . the radio personalities saying this stuff really walks the fine line.  I agree.

Keep the commercialization out of it . . . you know, the SHG logo is not trademarked . . .  they really need to trademark the thing through the US Patent Office and also copyright the school's name . . . or maybe I should just set up my own shop . . . I would be happy to donate a portion of the proceeds to the school.

#2 chgoalm

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 07:19 PM

Well, getting a patent ain't free, or cheap.  They'd have to sell a lot of little helmets and footballs to make up what it would cost to do that.

#3 HasBeen

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 07:45 PM

QUOTE (chgoalm @ Dec 26 2005, 06:19 PM)
Well, getting a patent ain't free, or cheap.  They'd have to sell a lot of little helmets and footballs to make up what it would cost to do that.

Are you sure?  When I worked at SHG, I looked into it through the US Patent Office - we did not want to do it at the time due to the little "TM" (you've seen it) that has to be put by the logo if you do . . . and it is not a patent on a new invention or anything like that - it would be a registered trademark (logo) and you might want to copywright "Sacred Heat-Griffin" . . . not too expensive . . . patents might be different . . .

But that was a few years back . . .

#4 chgoalm

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 08:00 PM

The filing fee itself is at least a few hundred dollars, then once you add in attorneys fees, trademark research, etc., my guess is it would be a few thousand.  In any event, even if it's just a couple hundred, is it really worth it to sell a few helmets.  I doubt you'd make much more, if any more at all, trademarking it and selling it through the school than staying as is and selling it through agents and getting some of the profits.  What incentive would a store in the mall have to take up space to sell a few dozen or so SHG products if they won't recoup anything from it?  Time is just as big an expense as money in some instances.

#5 JFLdadGHS87

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 08:12 PM

2006- win another state title and see if the cost of a trademark would be covered by a win in late November. I say go for it.
"Reclaim the Gold."

#6 OldFan

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 12:56 PM

For some reason, I've been unable to write to the JCA message board since they realigned it.  They sell a LOT of JCA and The Hill and the Lighthouse logo stuff.  Has anyone thought to ask them  how (and if) they dealt with this issue?

I'm perfectly cool with the DVD's Ron Sanders is selling because he's not profiting by it (all proceeeds to FCA).  But I agree that the other stuff is someone else attaching themselves like a leech to something to which they didn't contribute.  Maybe it isn't illegal, but that don't mean its right.
Respect ALL  . . . Fear NONE

#7 cornerrat

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE (HasBeen @ Dec 26 2005, 08:19 PM)
Yesterday, at a Christmas gathering – we discussed the sale of Cyclone State Championship merchandise . . . the discussion included eight alumni comprised of (not limited to one category) four past players, three past parents, an SHG board member, and four “Building Foundation for Life” campaign donors . . .

The discussion was a bit on the disappointed side . . . when the topic came up about autographed footballs (obviously signed by this year’s team) an entity was now selling . . . and a “portion of the proceeds” were going to the school.

You know . . . if it is not the booster club, I (personal opinion) won’t buy – my $ goes to no one’s pocket but SHG.  

The little helmets (that someone is making $ on . . . but it’s OK because some of the “proceeds” will be donated to the school) were enough.  That’s just not right.  If I want a ball for my kid signed by the team – I’ll just go up to the kids and ask them to sign it.

As I understand – the balls were recently discussed on local radio . . . the radio personalities saying this stuff really walks the fine line.  I agree.

Keep the commercialization out of it . . . you know, the SHG logo is not trademarked . . .  they really need to trademark the thing through the US Patent Office and also copyright the school's name . . . or maybe I should just set up my own shop . . . I would be happy to donate a portion of the proceeds to the school.

All... I understand your position HasBeen, but for me the more the better. Who knows when SHG (hopefully very soon) will win another state championship. Give me key chains, trinkets of any type with "2005 SHG 5A Championship" on it and I'll buy it regardless of who is selling it. Good advertising for the school by spreading their  name around town. I was surprised there wasn't caps for sale after the game, hope that will be taken care of in the near future.  Ratsy

#8 4everfan7

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 03:12 PM

Good call Ratsy. clap.gif

#9 HasBeen

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 03:58 PM

QUOTE (OldFan @ Dec 27 2005, 11:56 AM)
I'm perfectly cool with the DVD's Ron Sanders is selling because he's not profiting by it (all proceeeds to FCA).  But I agree that the other stuff is someone else attaching themselves like a leech to something to which they didn't contribute.  Maybe it isn't illegal, but that don't mean its right.

I am just fine, as well, with guys like Ron (you have no idea what time he puts in on the video - I know first-hand) , who sell to cover their costs (and there are costs) and donate any proceeds - he is a shining example of the people who built this program - and him and his family are obviously very proud parts of the SHG Family -  he is, and so many people are, a part of the program - they do it for the love of it - not for profit.

My problem is with anyone who wants to profit over this - I personally watched my father do an SHG video for the football team from 1989 to 2001 (I think it was 2001 -  that is when Ron took on the task) . . . no profit - just love for the program.

Just don't profit on the Cycs - so many people did not do it before . . . don't start now . . . if you really want to do something for the program then volunteer to do it, and sell your merchandise through the booster club . . .

gocycs.gif

#10 golfer64

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 04:00 PM

The mini helmets at the mall are the only thing available for sale that I am aware of  that don't come through the booster club or the football program itself.  The only footballs that have been signed will be kept for the coaches or one or two may be auctioned off as part of the annual fundraiser for the Phil Pearson Memorial Scholarship Fund.  Mini helmets and pictures could be ordered at the football banquet by the families of the players.  The price on the helmets being sold at the mall appears to be an average amount and part will be returned to the school.  I see nothing wrong with that as many alumni and friends would like to have something like that as a momento of a state championship.

#11 HasBeen

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 04:46 PM

Golfer - Here are my thoughts on the post . . .

The mini helmets at the mall are the only thing available for sale that I am aware of  that don't come through the booster club or the football program itself.  The only footballs that have been signed will be kept for the coaches or one or two may be auctioned off as part of the annual fundraiser for the Phil Pearson Memorial Scholarship Fund.  

GREAT!!!

Mini helmets and pictures could be ordered at the football banquet by the families of the players.  The price on the helmets being sold at the mall appears to be an average amount and part will be returned to the school.

What I have a problem with is just what you said "part will be returned to the school."

I see nothing wrong with that as many alumni and friends would like to have something like that as a momento of a state championship.

I can get any premium item anyone (or group) wants at cost . . . and will be happy to broker it - free of charge . . . I won't profit a bit . . .

It's very simple . . .

I just don't want anyone to use SHG to profit . . . that's all . . . there are a lot of ways money can be used to help SHG . . . I have a daughter who I hope to be able to send there - considering expenses and what tuition might be in the future . . . you know the importance of this . . .

gocycs.gif

Edited by HasBeen, 27 December 2005 - 05:03 PM.


#12 4everfan7

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 09:36 PM

Has Been I guess that is why we have discussion on the Forum. There are many members of Cyclone Nation who have different feelings on the issue of profit. I agree with Ratsy and gollfer if it helps give the accomplishments of the 2005 Cyclones some positive publicity it is all good.How much profit $$$ wise can't be your yardstick. How do you feel about Addidas and or Nike putting their marks on uniforms that we buy, they don't give those away. As far as I know Pepsi doesn't donate their product either as long as we get some profit we sell their product. What is the difference if a local merchant decides to spend some of his money with the blessing of the program[football] to push the Cyclone success into the public eye. Yea I do believe he is giving a pretty fair portion back to the Cyclones.
The price is already reasonable before the back donation is even considered. Go out and buy your daughter one hasbeen  :super: ----she will love it. My kids did!

#13 HasBeen

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE (4everfan7 @ Dec 27 2005, 08:36 PM)
Has Been I guess that is why we have discussion on the Forum. There are many members of Cyclone Nation who have different feelings on the issue of profit. I agree with Ratsy and gollfer if it helps give the accomplishments of the 2005 Cyclones some positive publicity it is all good.How much profit $$$ wise can't be your yardstick. How do you feel about Addidas and or Nike putting their marks on uniforms that we buy, they don't give those away. As far as I know Pepsi doesn't donate their product either as long as we get some profit we sell their product. What is the difference if a local merchant decides to spend some of his money with the blessing of the program[football] to push the Cyclone success into the public eye. Yea I do believe he is giving a pretty fair portion back to the Cyclones.
The price is already reasonable before the back donation is even considered. Go out and buy your daughter one hasbeen  :super: ----she will love it. My kids did!

Well, here goes .. .

First, I just think it is wrong to profit on the kids and donate a "portion" back to the school.  One who wants to help the school will donate through the annual fund or the "Building Foundations for Life" campaign - those people are published in the SHG Annual Report - available on the school web site.  Are you among either group - or both?

If you think it is right - we have come to a point we just will not agree on . . . you are profiting on something you did not build - if you did, you would understand, and not prostitute it. ("You" meaning anyone)

Second, as I said - I will get any item (trinket, etc.) you could want at cost - and just do it for the good of the program and those who love it.  Just ask me - I don't need a profit.  (I would like it - but don't require it) . . .

That is what I think is right . . .

#14 JFLdadGHS87

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 11:20 PM

Anybody who uses this title to profit for themselves miss the bigger picture. The title was about the selflessness of many who helped to get the title. Anybody using it for personal gain does not belong in the Cyclone Nation. PERIOD.
"Reclaim the Gold."

#15 HasBeen

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 02:48 AM

QUOTE (JFLdadGHS87 @ Dec 27 2005, 10:20 PM)
Anybody who uses this title to profit for themselves miss the bigger picture. The title was about the selflessness of many who helped to get the title. Anybody using it for personal gain does not belong in the Cyclone Nation. PERIOD.

I agree - you seem to know what Cyclone Football is about . . .

#16 Chuck_Duck2

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 03:22 AM

So - no one from the boosters was selling the helmets.

This means $0 dollars for the school.

Someone has a great idea and sells the helmets. They make some profit and give some back to the school.

This means some $$$ for the school.

It sounds to me like the problem is that no one from the school/boosters or whatever thought of it first. Maybe someone can take advantage and do the same thing. Just a thought. Also, why hasn't the boosters sold game jerseys for the little kids. They could even put State Champs on the back where the name plate goes and use the number 05 as the number.

I'm sure the kids that received the helmets for Christmas enjoyed them even if they didn't come directly from the schools.

#17 HasBeen

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 03:40 AM

QUOTE (Chuck_Duck2 @ Dec 28 2005, 02:22 AM)
So - no one from the boosters was selling the helmets.

This means $0 dollars for the school.

Someone has a great idea and sells the helmets. They make some profit and give some back to the school.

This means some $$$ for the school.

It sounds to me like the problem is that no one from the school/boosters or whatever thought of it first. Maybe someone can take advantage and do the same thing. Just a thought. Also, why hasn't the boosters sold game jerseys for the little kids. They could even put State Champs on the back where the name plate goes and use the number 05 as the number.

I'm sure the kids that received the helmets for Christmas enjoyed them even if they didn't come directly from the schools.

Sure - Chuck - they enjoyed it like a prison sentence . . . my point is - so many people went before you . . . and did not enjoy this success . . . . are you listed on the "Building Foundations for Life" campaign insert in the most recent Annual Report?

The people who give the real $ are the ones with the say . . . that's how I see it . . .

#18 Chuck_Duck2

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 04:02 AM

... and all this time, I thought we gave money freely for the Dominican Sisters to decide what is best.  You are evidently what many complain of - people that think they get a say-so because they give money. Do it freely or don't do it. When I give money to the school, I trust them to make the best decision possible.

Have the boosters get helmets and sell them. Get jerseys and sell them. Have a photo-opp day with the team and the trophy for a price. Autograph a bunch of footballs and sell them. If we aren't willing to raise money after such great success, we may not have such an easy opportunity again.

#19 4everfan7

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 09:11 AM

Chuckduck not all of the self-righteous posters on this website are as entrenched as they would like to believe. Hasbeen you still have not addressed what should be done with the Addidas or Nike profit that occurs at the success of Cyclone football. You guys crack me up. Has been can you make us some uniforms so these megacorps will not profit at Cyclone expense. roll_eyes.gif

Edited by 4everfan7, 28 December 2005 - 09:12 AM.


#20 HasBeen

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 12:13 PM

Chuck Duck . . . (is your name Chuck and you like to hunt duck? . . . just curious . . . but I digress)

1.  Those are great ideas . . . my point is as long as it goes through the booster club - not an outside entity.

2.  Chuck - as for the $ giving thing - I don't have the energy to type enough to educate you . . . but trust me - not many people know more about it than I do.

4everfan7

I am guessing you are counting me as one of the "self righteous" who are not as "entrenched" as I would think . . . well . . . hmmmm . . . you probably have no idea how "entrenched" I am - or at least, once was . . .

Now as for the Nike and Addidas of the world - well - I have no idea there or how the uniforms are produced - or how all that works . . . but I know one thing - if they make $ off SHG - or any other school for that matter - the school went to them for the service . . . they did not just go ahead and start producing things without being asked . . .

That is my point . . . heck - I have no idea how uniforms are done - maybe you do - but as for the helmits and all that stuff the school did not ask for (at least I am going to assume that - if I am wrong, have Sister O'Conner post and tell me differently - then I will happily shut up) . . . I would be happy to broker it at cost - no profit to me

And signed footballs (which is really where this started) - that's great, but again, if I want one, I will just ask for the kids to sign it . . . don't think their agents would mind . . .

Point is -

1. Keep a great thing in perspective
2. Don't use it to profit for yourself (perhaps not you personally, but anyone out there who is) . . .

Edited by HasBeen, 28 December 2005 - 01:07 PM.





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